Many years ago (we won't say exactly HOW many, but it's been a good long while) I set out on what has become a lifelong journey of exploring colour theory. As a young adult I exhausted every book on the subject at the local libraries wherever I lived, and I never stopped. I guess you could say it's been a never-ending passion, this thirst for colour knowledge. Nowadays of course, my library of choice is Google, and there are endless numbers of articles out there on various theories about how colour 'works'. And there are discrepancies out there too. Lots of them.
One thing I've been coming across lately, and I can't really say for sure just when I first noticed this, are articles from various sources which state that Ultramarine Blue is a warm blue, while Thalo Blue is a cool blue.

This flies in the face of what I studied about colour temperature 'way back when'. I learned years ago that Ultramarine is cool, while Thalo is warm. When did this shift in viewpoint 'out there' occur? And why?
Those are the questions I've been pondering for the past few weeks, while I was busy updating notes for a workshop I was teaching on Basic Colour Theory. I'm the type of person who just “has to know”, and so I set about to try and figure out just where this shift may have stemmed from. And I think I now may have the answer.
To determine Colour Temperature, most artists refer to the well-known Colour Wheel, which arranges colours in a circle. We're all familiar with the 3 Primaries (R – Y – B) spaced at equal distances around the wheel, with Secondaries (O – G – V) positioned between them, and so on. Various versions of this basic colour wheel are commonly used by the majority of artists nowadays, and I believe this just might be where the confusion may have arisen over the relative temperatures of Ultramarine Blue and Thalo Blue.

The colours on the Red-orange-yellow side of the colour wheel are classed as Warm colours, while those on the violet – blue – green side are classed as Cool colours. That division is widely accepted, and is based in part on psychological connections our brains make when viewing certain colours. Red, orange and yellow are all seen as 'fire' colours, and our brains interpret them as warm. Violet and blue suggest icy shadows on snow, while green suggests the cool grass beneath our feet on a hot summer day. Seems straightforward enough, right? There's a lot more to it than that, of course, but this division of warm and cool is accepted as accurate.

When we compare two different blues, in this case Ultramarine Blue and Thalo Blue, with the generic blue of the colour wheel, we can see that Ultramarine leans slightly toward the violet side of Blue, while Thalo leans toward the green side of Blue. So that places Ultramarine closer to Violet, while Thalo is closer to Green.
On this `standard` colour wheel, Violet is positioned next to Red, and Red is in the Warm zone. Therefore, if we use the colour wheel as our only reference, we might conclude that a Blue which is closer to Violet is also closer to Red, and therefore is warmer than a Blue which is closer to Green, which is further away from Red. So we might surmise from this that Thalo Blue is cooler than Ultramarine. This, I believe, is what a lot of people are doing.
However, let`s take a closer look at this colour wheel. Where does it come from?
To fully understand the way the Colour Wheel 'works', we first need to take a look at the Colour Spectrum. What is this?

White light is comprised of different individual colour wavelengths, which our eyes and brains interpret as different colours. When this white light is broken down into its separate colour bands, as it is in a rainbow, we can see the different colours arranged in order of their wavelengths.
The colours in this simplified version of the Spectrum are arranged according to their relative wavelengths, with Red having the longest and Violet the shortest. Colour Temperature applies to this spectrum as well, with the colours on the Red end being warm, while those on the Violet end being cool. This is based on science, with the colours arranged according to measureable differences.
Now, let's bend the ends of the spectrum upwards (hypothetically of course), until the two ends join together. This forms a circle, which is what we call the Colour Wheel.


The point where Red meets Violet on the wheel actually indicates where the two ends of the spectrum meet.
Violet is not 'warm', even though it sits beside Red on the wheel - it is still the coolest colour in the spectrum, while Red is still the warmest colour. Those properties don't change simply because we've turned the Spectrum bar into a circle, or a wheel.
This appears to be where the notion arises that Ultramarine Blue is warm, while Thalo Blue is cool. If we use just the colour wheel, without considering its origins and underlying meanings, that would be the logical conclusion.
* * *
Now let's look just at the cool end of the spectrum - from Green through Blue to Violet.
We can see that Blue is situated between Green on the left, and Violet on the right. From the basic spectrum we learned that Violet is the coolest colour and Red is the warmest. Therefore, since Green is closer to the Red end than Blue is, then Green would be considered warmer than Blue. Conversely, Violet would be considered cooler than Blue.
Next, let's compare Ultramarine Blue and Thalo Blue with this portion of the spectrum.

First we will see that Thalo Blue has slight leanings toward Green, while Ultramarine Blue has slight leanings toward Violet.
Therefore Thalo would be located on the 'green end of blue', while Ultramarine would be located on the 'violet end of blue'.
Continuing on this line of logic, which is based on scientifically measurable properties, we can see that Ultramarine is closer to Violet, while Thalo Blue is closer to Green.
Violet is cooler than Green.
Therefore it follows that Ultramarine Blue is cooler than Thalo Blue.
* * *
In summary, then - for accurate colour temperature comparisons, it's essential to go back to the source - the Colour Spectrum. That will give us the truest reference.
* * * * *
(Sharon Hicks is an artist who resides in Sackville NB. www.sharonhicksfineart.com )
86 Responses to WARM OR COOL? Ultramarine Blue vs Thalo Blue ...
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What an interesting article!
One thing that struck me right away, was the appearance of your two color samples at the beginning of the article.
As near as I can tell from "computer screen samples" they are very close in value, and yet which one advances (characteristic of warm) and which one recedes (cool characteristic)?
Wow, what we know to be technically true, and yet what the eye perceives - color is a tricky game to play!
KC
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The best source of course is for each person to lay out their own colours, in the flesh so to speak, and examine them with a critical eye. That's what I'm always encouraging artists to do when I teach classes on anything to do with colour. I've been making colour charts and studying 'real' colours for as far back as I can remember, and I haven't stopped yet - there's always something more to check into ...
btw - in the real samples of Ultramarine and Thalo, it becomes quite obvious that Thalo advances and Ultramarine recedes ...
cheers, and thanks for commenting :)
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My two-cents worth:
Your conclusion that Thalo Blue is warmer is likely correct, but I would you a different way to reach that conclusion.
Although your straight-line spectrum theory would appear to work for blues, zooming out into the big-picture, using that logic would also imply that more 'fiery' colours like Vermillion, Orange-Reds and Yellow are cooler than 'true' reds like Crimson Alizarin.
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My understanding of colour is two-fold; colours in the visible-light spectrum are different in nature to pigment-based colour (as in when you paint) in the following ways:
- The primary colours of visible light are comprised of Red, Green and Blue, while the counterpart for pigment is Magenta, Yellow and Cyan.
- The primary colours of visible light total-up into white light, while the same for pigment would give a dirty brown, requiring that true blacks and grey be a separate pigment.
- Magenta does not naturally occur in visible light (it has to be either reflected off magenta pigment or artificially generated on-screen), and 'violet' in the light spectrum is not the same as 'violet' or purple in pigment because the former is actually reaching the edge of visibility to the human eye (ultraviolet), while the latter naturally starts to re-integrate itself into red.
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One other factor to consider in 'warm' vs 'cool' values is 'intrinsic' brightness (although it has less to do with light and more with how the human eye perceives light). You have mentioned this in an earlier comment about colours that 'advance' and 'recede'. Green, for example, has a higher 'intrinsic' brightness than Blue, thus when comparing Green and Blue colours of equal value, Green tends to 'glow' or 'advance' more naturally - this would be the basis by which I conclude that Thalo blue is warmer.
Not to mention that that Green is so close to Yellow, which has the highest 'intrinsic' brightness of all, and by all accounts is functionally the 'warmest', even though it is obviously far-away from red! Certainly, a mere photo of the golden sun-scorched sand of the Sahara can be said to appear warmer than the reddest apple, haha...
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I would also mention that dealing with Blue values is a unique problem. No one has trouble deciding that Crimson or Burgundy is cooler than Vermillion Red; no one argues that Lime Green is warmer than Teal, but every argues when it comes to blue, and in reality this is because the human eye simply cannot understand blue quite as well. The human eye has evolved to focus more on red and green for survival reasons - red indicates ripe fruit or blood, while green indicates healthy foliage or toxic animals. From a survival standpoint, blue is frankly a bit useless and at best esoteric (hence the spiritual connotations it is often linked to).
Fun digression: The naming of colours in the evolution of a cultures language also reflects this set of priorities: After 'light' and 'dark', Red is one of the first colours which are named, whereas Greens and Blues are among the last, with Purple waaaaay at the back. In fact, some cultures today still do not have separate terms for blue and green today. The Chinese language, for example, defined its 'Green' from its 'Blue' with separate words relatively late in its civilization, and the original umbrella term is still used today, albeit ambiguously and often loosely translated into to 'Azure' or even simply 'Fresh Colour'.
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Your plight with explaining Ultramarine as cooler online is that by scanning your pigment, you are essentially trying to convert your pigment-based colour into light-based colour on a screen, and *everything* on a screen is produced by shining light out of it, so you have a field-day going out of your way to try and compensate for this, nevermind the additional issue of variability in colour display across screens!
I am a jeweller by profession and I witness a similar struggle with retailers selling blue sapphire and blue gemstone jewellery online in particular, compared to other things like ruby. Customers are almost always disappointed with the physical turnout because the computer interprets sapphire's deep blue colouring as a superlative of its light-based blue, and ramps it up for all its worth!
If you have Adobe-Photoshop or similar (I use a free software called Gimp which is almost exactly the same), you can manually reduce the brightness to better match.
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Hahaha, yes, I did go on a roll there (they happen more frequently and go on for longer now that I am older)!
Yes I agree that K.I.S.S. is best for a pragmatic, results-driven approach, especially for learners. If they are interested enough then it is up to them to delve further into theory on their own...
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This is important to me because Im trying to mix my own secondary colors from 6 primary colors. 3 warm and 3 cool of each primary.
The more important detail I'm trying to clarify is you can be unknowingly adding a third color to a mix when your intent is to only be mixing two colors. The result is a duller mixed color. For example ultramarine has a bit of red in it. So if I use it with yellow like lemon yellow it will make a duller green than if I had mixed it with thalo blue.
All of this makes my head hurt. The more I think I know the less I know:)
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Fact is, very few pigments would be what you could call 'pure' colours ... by having a warm and cool version of each primary, we can work around that tendency.
To get a 'good' green, you would select a yellow which is already on the greeish side, and a blue which is already on the greenish side. If you mix Lemon Yellow and Thalo Blue, for example, it will give you a 'truer' green than if you use an orangey yellow, or a purplish blue.
Mind you, those other combinations can also produce some really interesting greens. With just 2 blues (one warm, one cool) and 2 yellows (one warm, one cool), you can mix a wide range of interesting green tones. Mix each of the yellows with each of the blues, in different strengths - ie: more yellow and less blue, more blue and less yellow ... etc ...
Then you can do the same exercise with warm and cool red + warm and cool blue, and then of course warm and cool red + warm and cool yellow ... the possibilities are endless.
THEN you can start experimenting with mixing some of the secondary colours together, to get a wide array of greys and browns ... it's a fascinating topic which you can play with forever.
Have fun with it :)
cheers
Sharon
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cheers
Sharon
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I respect the way you've worked this out, but it doesn't work for me.
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I'm so glad you agree with me about ultramarine being a cool colour! I never gave it a second thought, it seemed so logical to me because in observing mountains I noticed that the ones far away are always violet, and cool colours being the ones that are supposed to recede, I have always assumed that violet was cool just because, well, it FEELS cold. And since ultramarine is right next to violet, then it just follows that it's cool. But I was not aware that there is a controversy about this, until I started following a discussion in the QandA section of an online art class that I'm taking right now. The instructor is adamant that ultramarine is a warm blue no matter what anybody says! I found your site by googling for another opinion, and here I am!
To me, Thalo blue is warmer than Ultramarine, so I agree with you there too.
By the way, I love your coloured pencil work!
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So you might come to one conclusion from looking at a conventional colour wheel; another from actually going out in the field and looking; and another from thinking of colours in terms of the proportion of other colours they carry.
Which of these is right for you is subjective: and it doesn't matter too much if you're using pure - well, unmixed - colours. It does matter though if you're using the principle of warm and cool to inform your colour mixing - to stick to examples given, if you were to use Pthalo Blue as a warm blue, and you sought to mix a warm green, you might mix it with Cadmium Yellow (which is taken to be warm); try it and see what you think. Now try mixing what most teachers et al mean by a warm blue, i.e. Ultramarine, with Cadmium Yellow. Which of these comes nearer to your idea of warm green (not the same as bright green)?
There are numerous games you can play with this; the standard colour wheel is not, I would suggest, of any help at all in actually mixing colours; it only comes into its own when assessing which colours to place against each other, and even then it's on a spectrum, which isn't especially useful in practical terms.
For more thinking on this (which isn't to say you'll agree with it) take a look at the Michael Willcox School of Colour website; it does at least take us away from the purely subjective, and injects a bit of science into colour theory.
Without a bit of the science at least, there is going to be confusion about terms - your warm colour might be my bright or strong one (especially in the case of Pthalo Blue)- your cool colour might be my idea of neutral, or desaturated. E.g. how would you describe Burnt Umber? I'd say it was a warm colour, but it's certainly not a bright one.
I can't say I think too much about warm and cool while painting, but I do think about the amount of red (for instance) a colour carries when mixing: which is why if, for example, I want a clean violet I wouldn't try mixing it with Cadmium Red and Pthalo Blue - too much yellow in the Cad Red, too little red in the Pthalo Blue.
Too much theory drives some people mad - it interests me. But if it bores you to distraction, to be honest I'd just ignore it - use colour as you see it, and if that makes mixing a problem, either do less of it and employ single colours out of the tube, or learn what mixes work for you and remember them, or make a colour chart of those you need most often.
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You know your instructor's opinion (which, so far as you've detailed it, is in accord with generally accepted theories) and while you may think it slightly hypocritical to accept it in your assignment when you don't in reality, my question would be do you want the assignment to be accepted or not? If you do, then you're going to have to conform.
I don't know if you're seeking a qualification or not (and for what they're worth, which isn't much) but if you are it's unfortunately true that you don't get these things by bucking the trend.
I don't conform, by the way! But then, I don't take exams or have to do assignments.
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This discussion is a great argument by the way for just saying reddish blue or greenish blue.
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Hua Nan, these aren't really three different approaches, just different terminologies, so I don't think looking at people's paintings will resolve much, but anyway here are a few of mine:
https://sites.google.com/site/djcbriggs/oilpaintings
For the record, my "side" is that colours are created by the human visual system and are not actually "in" the spectrum. Most commonly warmth is associated with both redness and yellowness, but for substantial minorities it is associated with just redness or just yellowness. If it's impossible to come up with an agreed definition, perhaps it's best to drop the idea as a way of describing hue, and just say reddish blue vs greenish blue, etc.
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And here is mine - http://artlanegallery.com/workszoom/1243773.
Cheers :)
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All colours are relative. We might think that blues are all cool compared with reds, for example, but it is possible to make an intense blue come forward and a dull red recede in relation to eachother. There are two issues to look at - temperature, which is conventionally whether a colour appears to advance or recede, and intensity - how bright it is.
Your colour spectrum shows very clearly that phthalo blue is more intense than ultramarine. With a yellow at the top of the wheel as the brightest, most reflective colour, purple is at the bottom as the least reflective. By that measure phthalo blue is closer to yellow and is more intense/bright. Ultramarine is closer to purple so less intense - it reflects less light.
But to consider warmth Orange should be the warmest colour - have you ever seen a cool orange? There are warm and cool reds, warm and cool yellows, but a reduced orange or burnt sienna is still warm - and when you tip the wheel around so that orange is on top, phthalo blue drops to the bottom as the coldest colour. To warm a blue we add red. To cool a blue we add yellow. To make a blue come forward we use cobalt or ultramarine, to make it recede we use Prussian or phthalo or cerulean. So while the spectrum explains the intensity it doesn't equate with relative warmth. I certainly agree that phthalo is brighter though. :-)
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I question your statement that: "To make a blue come forward we use cobalt or ultramarine, to make it recede we use Prussian or phthalo or cerulean." ... in practice, if you add Prussian or phthalo to a neutral blue, it is going to make it appear to advance, so it looks 'closer'. By contrast, if you add cobalt or ultramarine to a blue it will appear to recede, so it looks 'further away'.
This is of course also based on intensity - I suggest you might want to take a puddle of thalo blue or cerulean blue, and a puddle of cobalt or ultramarine ... add white to each to make them both pastel ... then observe which one appears to be closer.
Check out the sky on a clear day - the blue at the 'top' of the sky is generally more intense than the blue at the 'bottom' of the sky ... You've already stated that Thalo is 'more intense', while Ultramarine is 'less intense' ... the 'top' of the sky is actually closer to us, being directly overhead, while the 'bottom' of the sky is much further away, being at the far edge of the arc which is the sky over us. Therefore the more intense blue looks to be closer to us, while the less intense one looks to be further away. Or, to insert the colours themselves - Thalo looks closer, while Ultramarine looks further away.
'Common knowledge' among artists is that 'cool colours recede'. Ultramarine 'recedes' and thalo 'advances' if they are placed next to each other.
I suspect that part of the 'difficulty' surrounding this question is the fact that different people see colours in different ways. Also, many artists have only ever learned to use a colour wheel, without learning the background information as to how and why it works, and its strengths AND shortcomings.
cheers, Sharon
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This confused me, when I started fine arts many years ago we were taught that the "yellow in the colour" would indicate its warmth. Full stop. I found your page on google when I decided to research this and would like to say THANK YOU for explaining it so succinctly.
Lily
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Warm v Cool colours is something I have been pondering for years and your article has been really helpful.
Instinctively I have always felt that Phtalo Blue is warmer than Ultramarine, but as a 'learner' I have been listening to my 'teachers' (mainly google !!!) who say the opposite.
Your explanation of the colour spectrum makes perfect sense to me and will enable me in future to make up my own mind rather than battling through such conflicting advice.
I can't tell you how relieved I feel !!
Ruth Griffin
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As for Cobalt blue, I've always considered it to be a cool blue, though a tad warmer than Ultramarine ... I guess you could call it a 'mid-range' blue - warmer than Ultramarine yet cooler than Pthalo ...
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I saw an interesting article in Emptyeasel.com (Tips for correctly mixing color). This made a whole lot of sense leaving the warm/cold debate out of the equation. Was very helpful to me.
Thanks for your insights. This is the hardest part of painting for everyone, especially someone like me, getting back into painting after 30 years!
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It's only by understanding how the purple and red on the colour wheel are actually at opposite ends of the spectrum, that one can correctly interpret the actual story of Ultramarine blue.
I shudder to think that a whole generation of art teachers are seemingly missing this one basic piece of the colour puzzle. This misinformation will only continue to perpetuate itself ad infinitum.
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In the case of the widespread influence of Itten, I guess it's a case of "it's not what you know, it's who you know". I suspect he came along at just the right time to capture the attention of a growing number of people looking for a 'quick easy answer' without having to do any research themselves.
I was still quite young at that time, but I didn't fall into that category - I have always had the 'thirst' to check out as many widely divergent viewpoints as I could find, and then gradually zeroed in on the one(s) that made the most sense in a scientific as well as practical way. Guess I should have been born a century ago LOL ...
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Great article! Even famous teachers get it wrong as I've discovered!
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ROYGBIV :)
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The teachers you mentioned would be those who merely pass on what they themselves have been taught, rather than do their own research and pass on what they have discovered. We need more of the latter variety. :)
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So perhaps that is the explanation Sharon - if you believe as you stated that 'green is warm and purple is cool', which I would dispute, (and which is contrary to the way you have divided your colour wheel), then you would see ultramarine as cool. But where does that assumption come from? Both purple and green are made up of a mix of warm and cool colours so neither are inherently either warm or cool. A blue-green is cool, a yellow- green is warm. A red-purple is warm, a blue-purple is cool. It's all relative. Orange, or course, is made up of only warm colours so is always warm, even when a blue is added to neutralise it to burnt sienna or burnt umber hues.
As David said earlier, perhaps avoiding cool and warm terms causes less confusion.
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Both positions are dependent on whether red or yellow is selected as the warmest colour. Many select red as the warmest, and therefore see ultramarine as warmer. Others classify yellow as warmest. Some select orange.
We're really talking about paint, not light. And paint does not behave the same as light. So appealing to the wavelengths of light spectrum doesn't settle completely the matter. There are other physical attributes associated with paint that also affect colour perception.
For anyone who is interested, Handprint also has an excellentl in depth article on this topic: http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/color12. He concludes that there is no 'correct' warmest or coolest colour - they reflect two different traditions, both with merit.
Again - very intersting article!
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CHEERS
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I am a UK-based artist, and I have always thought ultramarine blue was more cool than warm. I am glad my eyes don't deceive me ;) Thanks for the article.
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Thanks for all the information also
Michelle
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The correct word is COMPOSED
White light is composed of different wave lengths.
Different wave lengths COMPRISE ( make up ) white light.
Your thing is color. My thing is language.
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It is actually VIOLET which is added to blue to 'make' ultramarine.
The range between red and blue is a wide range of purple hues. The redder end of the purple range, as in Magenta etc, are considered 'warm purples'. The bluer end of the purple range, as in Violet etc, are considered 'cool purples'.
So in actual fact you are adding a cool purple to blue, which is going to make it cooler.
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For the painting I'm on now, I substituted Permanent Rose for my warm red. Why? I don't know. To see what would happen, mostly.
Am I totally off the beam with my choices? Have I divided them up in a way that may hinder my progress?
Thanks!
Gary
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Aliz Crimson is a good choice for a cool red and cad red light is a good choice for a warm red or for even warmer - scarlet lake.
Yellow ochre would typically be considered a warm yellow and you could actually use your cad yellow light for a cool yellow.
Permanent rose is typically on the cool side - more pinkish (tends towards violet).
Hope this helps and that I haven't confused you more.
Mearced
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I had the pleasure of studying under Julie Hanson, she has just published a great book (Fire and Light) that deals with warms and cools.
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I'm not here to argue and make proofs just really disagree, inspire the fact that you made a really interesting case.
Warmly,
Gosha
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http://www.huevaluechroma.com/077.php
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Your take is better, but I actually see both green and violet as warmer than blue. Every colour wheel seems to have a mid-green and a dark violet, so the violet recedes in comparison. But equalise the brightness and there's no difference. My take is that blue is the "ultimate" cool hue, orange the ultimate warm, and black/white/grey the ultimate neutral colours. The warmth or coolness of a colour relates to how close it is to these: blue/orange = warmth/coolness respectively, and the intensity of the effect relates to its distance from the nearest neutral.
Perhaps my instincts are wonky. Perhaps it's related to the earlier comment that the human eye doesn't understand blue: it's conceptually distant, so it looks visually distant. It would be interesting to know how other people see it, anyway.
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